Monosodium Glutamate in Hikari Betta Bio-Gold

[pkattitude]

Hi friends,

Today I bought a packet of Hikari Betta Bio-Gold and was surprized (apart from its ridiculous price)to see MSG (monosodium glutamate; aginomoto) as an ingredient.

So, I am just wondering that is it something that is used normally in fish food or is it something to do with Japanese food habits? I am also concerned if its regular use will have an health impact on my bettas?

[zico_aqua]

my betta's have been living in a staple diet of bio-gold for over 14 month..none the less they are super happy and love their food

[Arjun Tandon]

That is really unexpected
What could be the use of such a harmful chemical be in fish food
it is harmful even for long term human consumption

[pkattitude]

my betta's have been living in a staple diet of bio-gold for over 14 month..none the less they are super happy and love their food

Thanks Abhradip - my betta are on tetra bits and blood worms (dried) and they are doing well. So , I am a bit confused now if i should switch them to hikari. Why I am confused is because MSG causes a kind of addiction. And I am just wondering if it would become a bane - in case I run out of food and the fighters refuse to eat anything else --given the fact that hikari is not available on all pet stores.

That is really unexpected
What could be the use of such a harmful chemical be in fish food
it is harmful even for long term human consumption

Exactly my point Arjun. Though MSG is listed as GRAS (generally recognized as safe) by FDA. It is a very controversial food additive. betta bio-gold is the only fish food that I have come across, that uses it. I am not sute if it is there in other Hikari products as well.

[apuda2010]

I am not aware of a single scientific paper which has been published which says that MSG as a standalone agent in minor quantities with long term consumption leads to any kind of disorder. First of all, MSG is not a synthetic compound, it is a natural one. Secondly , it has been used for ages as a flavouring agent. In my view , commercially available turmeric or chilli powder is far more harmful compared to MSG.

MSG does not cause any addiction whatsoever. It is a rounding agent , which means that you add it to `round off' the taste of individual flavours in food. If you substitute your Hikari pellets with any food which contains crushed garlic , the chances of addiction are far higher. Thats because garlic is very high on the scale of flavour and its absence may be interpreted as the food not being `eatable'. MSG by itself DOES NOT have any kind of favourable flavour , in fact it is quite disgusting to eat raw.

I urge all to read more on this topic. When you go to a restaurant to eat Chinese food (which is where the whole MSG controversy started from) , you tend to consume hundreds of ingredients, topped with wine,soups etc etc. It is virtually impossible to say, given the methods of Chinese cooking , what may or may not trigger any kind of post-meal symptoms.

[pkattitude]

I am not aware of a single scientific paper which has been published which says that MSG as a standalone agent in minor quantities with long term consumption leads to any kind of disorder.

I found the following on a quick 30 sec search on PubMed -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22873054 - The influence of long-term monosodium glutamate feeding on the structure of rats pancreas
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23070349 - Monosodium glutamate neonatal treatment induces cardiovascular autonomic function changes in rodents.

Secondly , it has been used for ages as a flavouring agent.

I already said that it is a GRAS by FDA

In my view , commercially available turmeric or chilli powder is far more harmful compared to MSG.

Are they used in fish food as well??

I urge all to read more on this topic. When you go to a restaurant to eat Chinese food (which is where the whole MSG controversy started from) , you tend to consume hundreds of ingredients, topped with wine,soups etc etc. It is virtually impossible to say, given the methods of Chinese cooking , what may or may not trigger any kind of post-meal symptoms.

When one goes to the restaurant, may be he goes once in two days of mostly once in a week. We are talking about feeding a fish twice-thrice daily with MSG.

FDA is a well recognized body which governs the use of food ingrediends and drugs etc in USA. On its website it says that MSG is GRAS and they have not been able to prove the harmful affects till now (the point is that they have not been able to prove and not that they have not received complains).

Having said that there is a lot of material on the internet which supports both the views.

I just want to make sure that my fishes stay healthy, that's why all this concern

[apuda2010]

The research papers on PubMed did not appear to point to anything in particular. Of course there are hundreds of such studies, but there does not appear to be anything conclusive.

Neither turmeric nor chilli powder are used in fish food. But between the two of them, they are extremely prone to adulteration due to the powder form in which they are typically consumed.

You can go to a restaurant in downtown Tokyo and order Puffer fish , a delicacy in Japan. Unless the chef has a licence and his highly skilled and trained, you can land up consuming a neurotoxin so powerful, it can kill you. So, my point was not about restaurant eating, but the fact that the chances of any kind of disaster happening is pretty much equal in one-off as well as regular instances like eating MSG daily.

My feeling is , and I can be wrong , the whole thing about `flavour enhancement' or `flavour enrichment' is actually a clever trick. Suppose your Hikari fish food says that it contains 50% frozen crushed shrimps. It is possible that it may contain only 40% and the remaining 10% is simply made up of common flour or any such cheaper alternative. Now if you add MSG on top of this recipe, it will never matter to the fish , since from a taste perspective , they may never be able to distinguish between 50% frozen shrimp+MSG versus 40% frozen shrimp+cheaper alternative+MSG. What it does to the overall cost of production for the supplier of course is different. It involves significant reduction in costs for sure.

So my question would not be whether MSG in such small doses is harmful. I would ask simply - why add it in the first place ? Do pets , like humans, look for taste when they eat or do they see food as a source purely of nutrition ?

[pkattitude]

The research papers on PubMed did not appear to point to anything in particular. Of course there are hundreds of such studies, but there does not appear to be anything conclusive.

Neither turmeric nor chilli powder are used in fish food. But between the two of them, they are extremely prone to adulteration due to the powder form in which they are typically consumed.

You can go to a restaurant in downtown Tokyo and order Puffer fish , a delicacy in Japan. Unless the chef has a licence and his highly skilled and trained, you can land up consuming a neurotoxin so powerful, it can kill you. So, my point was not about restaurant eating, but the fact that the chances of any kind of disaster happening is pretty much equal in one-off as well as regular instances like eating MSG daily.

My feeling is , and I can be wrong , the whole thing about `flavour enhancement' or `flavour enrichment' is actually a clever trick. Suppose your Hikari fish food says that it contains 50% frozen crushed shrimps. It is possible that it may contain only 40% and the remaining 10% is simply made up of common flour or any such cheaper alternative. Now if you add MSG on top of this recipe, it will never matter to the fish , since from a taste perspective , they may never be able to distinguish between 50% frozen shrimp+MSG versus 40% frozen shrimp+cheaper alternative+MSG. What it does to the overall cost of production for the supplier of course is different. It involves significant reduction in costs for sure.

So my question would not be whether MSG in such small doses is harmful. I would ask simply - why add it in the first place ? Do pets , like humans, look for taste when they eat or do they see food as a source purely of nutrition ?

I understand that the research papers are not conclusive - it was just for reference that MSG is controversial and people are spending money to investigate that and its in scientific literature.

Coming to your point on possible adulteration - I believe that this is not easily possible in developed countries like Japan. The regulatory bodies are pretty strict there and what you write on the label must be in the pack (on an average).

I feel that you are raising the same concern as I am - fishes do have their own taste (as far as my knowledge is concerned) and obviously Hikari is exploiting it. But the question for me is - why exploit using a controversial ingredient and why only in betta (do other hikari products use msg as well?)

[pkattitude]

Ok, seems like I found the answer on another forum while searching google and trust me its very interesting (there is a patent on it)-

excerpt -

.......Considering the invention in greater detail, we have found that certain amino acids are able to induce a feeding or hunting response in fish and crustacea and that even as between the amino acids which are able to induce such a response the intensity and duration of the response will vary with the particular amino acid. Thus, we have found that monosodium glutamate elicits a very strong hunting or feeding response such that the fish and crustacea behave in a very excited or alarmed fashion. Further the response elicited by monosodium glutamate is, for some unexplained reason, much stronger than that elicited by glutamine, but both are of relatively short duration. In contrast to monosodium glutamate, we have found that alkali metal aspartates elicits a strong hunting or feeding response for a sustained period of time though less intense than sodium glutamate. Thus, we have found the combination of monosodium glutamate and an alkali metal aspartate to be particularly advantageous in that the initial frenzy response elicited by monosodium glutamate initially attracts the fish and/or crustacea to the feed, bait or trap, and the sustained action of alkali metal aspartate continues the attraction at a desirably strong rate, but not at the frenzy which is induced by monosodium glutamate, and which would be undesirable for a long period of time in that it would cause the animals to destroy or damage each other....

The link of the patent (already expired) and its full text.
http://www.patentlens.net/patentlens/pa ... d=p0#tab_1

[pkattitude]

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